Monday, January 8. 2007Altruism vs EgoismTrackbacks
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Igor,
Just because you see in any action benefit doesn't mean there is a benefit for the person that performs that action. The probability doesn't imply 100% existence. e.g.: Many times I do things just to help people, make their lives easier and not to gain any benefit (and I am sure I am not the only one). So, the term altruism exists in real life, as in my own personal example. To continue, there were many things I did and forgot about them the next day, without having a "subjective and personal" change in my mood/"heart" as you define it. What mattered to me is that the other person is doing great after those things I did (totally unselfish feeling) which meant to help him/her. So, my actions were focused entirely on the prosperity and welfare of that other human being and not a bit on mine. Did I do it to feel great ? No! I did it because I sincerely felt the necessity to help the other person, because I was once in the same damn situation. Btw, I think altruism can come from compassion. Having compassion enables you to draw onto yourself the problems of the other person and putting yourself into their shoes. Compassion enables you to help them, without helping yourself in any way, and solving those problems that NOT in any way solve yours, both spiritually and materially. That's altruism in my opinion. Another good example of altruism, in my opinion, would be Mother Teresa. She did everything to help others, based on her actions, without drawing any benefit from it. Also, just for the record, people get benefits because other people want to express their gratitude to those people. It's not their fault that they get benefits (our minds might think that it was a well sketched plan to receive that benefit), like in the case of Einstein, when he was awarded 1 million bucks for his work in Physics (he donated it to his wife afterwards). Of course he did feel appreciated and his personal state was improved most probably, but he didn't consciously do it just for that, but for science (although Einstein talks about what a great feeling it is to uncover nature's mysteries). So, Einstein did major work for Physics, being appreciated although he didn't want those appreciations and gratitudes. ps: Good discussion. V
Awesome feedback. I believe you need to dig deeper though. The idea is that a person never does anything for just some unselfish reason. There is always selfish reason present. There is always some benefit pursued. It maybe a well-stated easily-recognizable benefit as in #1, #2 and #3, but sometimes it can be almost on subliminal level (#4).
Hey Igor,
Great article and an interesting point of view! Altruism does exist, but like you said it's because altruistic people gain moral satisfaction from giving sometimes quite material benefits to others. Talk to you later!
well said. exactly what I meant, in a good short summary. :)
thanks for participating.
Chuvak,
1. Vo pervyh ty smotresh gluboko no s nizkoi vysoty. Tebe prosto nado vzletet' i zabyt' chto ktoto tebe chemto dolzhen ili ty komuto chemto dolzhen. 2. Chto znachit vse lyudi? Kamon. Opyat' ty pytaeshsya vseh pod tuzhu monetu postavit'. Eto ne pravil'no. Lyudi raznye - vot dopustim Mother Tereza ili tvoya Mama. Koroche, ne grusti. Vseo budet nishtyak. Ya
Valera,
1. You are missing the point. 2. It doesn't matter who it is. Any given person is pursuing his own goal first, and if they happen to help someone else along the way, it's great. If you read the explanation of benefit category #4 carefully, you will see that people go for that benefit by helping others. but thanks for participating in discussion
1. Regarding the short summary - sorry, I should have written a generic comment like that too - "interesting point, great article!" I just like to support my words through explanations and examples to convice the reader in the validity of my point. Sometimes it can take a paragraph, other times 2, and still other - an article like yours.
2. Let me agree with you and say - yes, I am missing the point. You are right, how could I be so blind till now?! Let me follow your flow of logic: _each_ person on this earth is selfish and always pursues a benefit in any action that person takes/makes (pay attention to "each", "always" and "any"). Well, let's make a story. Let's take that same airport situation you've mentioned for 3 times. You are driving to the airport to pick up a friend. When you arrive you meet your friend and he _suddenly_ (pay attention to this word) introduces you to 2 more people that need a ride from the airport and a place to stay over night. Let's say you live in a castle and instantly agree, without any back thoughts, to host those to people and give them a ride where they need to get. In a few days they leave. Those people might have left some type of impression on you, but this is beyond the point I want to make (it doesn't matter your inner feeling towards them as they formed only when you helped them, they weren't planned feelings or "personal benefits"). You weren't looking for impressions or personal satisfaction, you just helped those people for the sake of helping. Is this help driven by a personal benefit? Did you think about a benefit when you agreed to host those people at that moment you've been asked for help (find the word "suddenly" above) ? It really depends who you are and I think there are certainly people who do things SOMETIMES without pursuinig any type of benefits. Are we altruist all the time? Most of us (99%) are not! If you want to have something for yourself you have to act selfish and not think about the others, but this doesn't mean we act like this _all the time_. Many of us are altruists at certain times, if not all the time. Conclusion: Altruism can exist and can be part of the human character and nature. Being an altruist for a period of time is _possible_.
Valera,
in your own example about your friend who suddenly asks you to give ride and a place to stay for two more people, you agree only because you are hoping to feel good because you do it. You might not consciously think about it, but you expect it. That's the benefit you pursue. For some people that benefit is not important and doesn't mean much, but for some it is very important. I never said altruism doesn't exist. It exists, but it is not unselfish. It is pretty darn selfish.
Altruism can not be selfish, from definition.
Regarding the benefit, again, there are situations when people just help other people and forget about it as soon as they did it. How you respond to providing help is personal, but it can be an unselfish response. V
That's the point of my article, to prove that the definition is wrong.
There are no situations when people just help, people always do it for their own benefit(sometimes for benefit of catefory #4). They can forget about what they did, but they are left with the good feeling. It seems like we are talking on different frequencies here. I think you are still missing my point.
Of course I am.
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